On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:33 PM, as part of an essay, “The Numbers” accounting the tragedy of the endless slaughter of innocents, gary whitford wrote:
So many lives, all over the world, ended by bullet, bomb or bludgeon. So many lives exploited by unfair labor and oppressive economies, so many souls held prisoner by faiths of hate and fear, so many minds focused on obedient rage at another’s existence. I no longer have numbers here. We could go and gather them like pecans in the yard, walking under trees of deliberate human tragedy – Darfur, Rwanda, Auschwitz, Palestine – gathering 80 one day here, 1,342 another day over there.
It was published in this blog on June 28.
On 6/29/09 8:13 AM, Larry Cohen wrote:
That you should include the Palestinian issue in the same breath with Darfur et al is a sign that you are misinformed and brain washed. This view is just plain wrong.
War does bring bad things- and I do not excuse it. but going after people just to rid the the world of them in a governmental and public acquiescence policy does not apply to the Palestinian issues. Your education in this is woefully misinformed at best, and at worst a connivance created by the Arab world that suits their purpose- which by the way IS a stated policy of a desire to rid the world of the Israeli’s and the Jews.
I am happy to talk further. – Larry
On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:28 PM, gary whitford wrote:
I seek nothing but solutions. The manifest destiny assumption of the state of Israel, displacing people then oppressing them could cause them to condemn the seizure of land and thus the existence of the state that legitimizes it. They could assume a peaceful coexistence with these people, find some role in a society of mutual interests and that may be worth any subservient role afforded them. Rockets flying both ways and landing on the innocent – that condemns the species. America assumes a superior position in the world based on its ability to obliterate buildings from 50,000 feet. The death of one innocent condemns the species. There is no politic, no truth but that our species must find a better way to live or it will continue creating its own hell.
I take no other position. Everybody fighting needs to stop. Everybody assuming the right to oppress another needs to stop. Now.
I do love you my friend, and the disclaimer’s on the about page – I may, or may not, know what I’m talking about. – gary
On 6/30/09 2:06 PM, Larry Cohen wrote:
You need to have some education. Your statements are founded on a uniformed history. Israel has offered peace, and it has not been accepted (Oslo). Israel did not create the displacement (though they are doing settlements which, though an issue, does not displace) and it terms of oppression – the Arab world has gone to great lengths to keep them (ed. note: Palestinians) oppressed as a chattel agency for their larger agenda. There is politic and to deny it is to bury oneself in the sand.
People do live with a reality in their heads- if you think otherwise take a look at the Palestinian and Arab world’s stated plan and desire – it is not to live in peace – therefore, if you cannot come see this, then you’re wishful – and I might add worthy – desire will be simply bashing at windmills and not really rooted. When you say you do not take a position – you do – it is stated in your first paragraph and disclaimers do not excuse banner waving in some named noble cause without the responsibility of knowledge.
Your continued friend(albeit riled up) – Larry
On Jun 30, 2009, at 7:27 PM, gary whitford wrote:
Neither side seems to have an organized and stable effort for peace. It is a wishful desire, and I have no aspiration of seeing it achieved, merely a computer and a free page on which to write. Am I to support Israel as it partitions and starves? Am I to support Palestine as it continues to beat its breastplate (and fire trashy missiles from schools and orphanages) while its mothers have no milk for their babies? Am I to find any difference in this conflict and any other on the planet? I thank coincidence I was born in this country and I am able to eat my tacos and drink my coffee in peace.
I take a very simple – yet impossible – position. Each murder of an innocent condemns the species. All efforts except those to withdraw our arms from foreign lands are mortal sin, and I need no God to condemn it.
On 6/30/09 11:08 PM, Larry Cohen wrote:
Your desire is all of our desires-
But my only discussion was that there are different kinds of horror , rooted in darker places – and I took issue with your statements putting all man caused deaths on the same causal plane, and – as I see it – mouthing what has been a propaganda campaign by the Arab world and taken up by those who regularly do not take time to find out or seemingly acknowledge many of the important facts – thus it becomes possible to call Israel a genocidal country, with all the attendant connotations and historical anti-Jewish stuff through history – and to not place good efforts at the locale of greatest cause and potential direct effect.
To focus on this issue (which is where I am at): if the Arab world said today that Israel and the Jews have a right to exist, and stop all attacks, and focus their efforts in really helping the Palestinians, Israel would lay down their arms and help with the solution.
But on the other hand If Israel were to lay down their arms without this…..they would be destroyed.
Words, as you so well know are not benign – and how we use them elucidates what we believe. The broader issue of all of us needing to deal with the fear, desire for power and violence within us, taking on the Isaiah principle and working towards a time of total mutual regard and support is the goal of our species. I hope for it daily, pray that somehow the madness will stop…and get disheartened, angry, depressed, etc that there is the constant repetitive history.
Uniting with the good is our only way, and continuing to have compassion for those who cannot while at the same time setting conscious clear, boundaries with integrity on behavior.
And……how did God get in here? Larry
On 6/30/09 11:34 P.M. gary whitford wrote:
God didn’t get in here except to be dismissed.
I’m good at the blues. I’m good for turnin’ a phrase. I’m a good time for a willing woman. I feel good. It’s good enough for now. Johnny B. Goode.
I thought for a moment we could coopt the world, buy them off. That we could use our intelligence and good television to create fair industries, create jobs and education and support Jeffersonian democrats as they organize communities, that their tolerance for people who hate and threaten their children and impoverish them with constant conflict would disappear in the possibilities of steady employment, healthcare, sufficient food and a brighter future for their children. We spend enough money on bombs – we spend enough money maintaining our nuclear arsenal to purchase several small countries.
All we would have to do is play fair and not exploit the situation. We would have to refuse the cost-effective options offered by military dictators and invest in the long term with no meaningful return for a couple of generations.
I tell people all the time – the truth is impossibile to realize in hell. The species will despoil the environment beyond its ability to sustain us and we will choke to death on our inability to unite behind a paradise of common interest and peace. But not tonight. So, tonight I will type. Shouldn’t we share this on the blog? Good night.